Weber: 'We've got to man up'
COLUMBUS, Ohio — The lingering image of Illinois' meltdown at Nebraska on Saturday could be one of two things.
The scoreboard that showed a result — Huskers 80, Illini 57 — tying the worst loss in the Bruce Weber, in terms of the margin of defeat.
Or it could be something else, something more unsettling and telling. It could be Meyers Leonard, as gregarious and enjoyable a 19-year-old as you would be fortunate to meet, breaking down in tears on the bench.
The journey to this point hasn't been easy for Leonard. But that moment was heavy enough to crack his emotions.
"He's a young kid, very emotional," coach Bruce Weber said Monday. "He cared so much he was so disappointed he couldn't help the team be successful."
The caring part, that's cool with Weber. He wants defeat to hurt. But as Illinois prepares to meet No. 8 Ohio State at Value City Arena tonight (6, ESPN), Weber's message was this: "It's not done and over with. We are capable."
"I don't want any more tears until the end of the season. We've got to play," he said. "For me, too. I can't have my own pity party. They can't have it. This is it. There's no sympathy from anyone. You guys know that. It's out there. If we feel sorry for ourselves we're going to let the season slip by.
"We've got to man up. Tough times stop; tough people don't."
Ohio State (22-5, 10-4 Big Ten) hasn't taken it easy on the Illini (16-11, 5-9), having won 10 of their last 13 meetings and five of the last six trips to Columbus. And the Buckeyes probably need to sweep their final three games to win or share their fifth Big Ten title in seven years. So they have something big to play for.
"The one place you don't want to go right away after the Nebraska game is a game at Ohio State," Weber said, and the Buckeyes are 39-1 in their last 40 home games. "But it's the (next) game on the schedule, especially catching them after a loss (at Michigan) and they've had a little bit of struggles."
Illinois, meanwhile, is playing to save face and for its own pride. Barring a basketball miracle at the Big Ten tournament, the NCAA tournament is a dream. The Nebraska loss tied a 59-36 loss at Minnesota in 2009 as the worst in Weber's eight-plus seasons and was the Illini's fifth straight.
Odds are it will get worse before it gets better for the Illinois program.
A sought-after prospect that desires to help his family, Leonard is likely gone to the NBA after this season. That would remove the would-be centerpiece from the 2012-13 lineup. The one-man 2012 recruiting class offers little oomph, either. Crete-Monee senior Michael Orris is an addition in stability, not star power. And a coaching change is all but certain.
Illinois coaches said they didn't believe the players quit at Nebraska. Instead, they said the losing and pressure overwhelmed them. On Sunday and Monday, Weber said, he met with players and communicated through phone calls and text messages, offering encouragement and a positive message.
"Fresh minds, fresh legs," he said. "Hopefully a revised spirit."
Ok , Meyers, the freshmen, Joe Bertrand and our signed recruit, Michael Orris...take heed from the above. You will be forever linked to Weber and every time you lose a game in the future, they will blame you for being one his boys. Do you want to hear that for all your time left here? You will never get any credit for any win..that will be because the next coach got a win IN SPITE OF YOU!!! Go pro Meyers, transfer out everyone else above and Orris, you can get released from your signature...your coach will be gone. Go somewhere where you can play without the toxic shadow that will follow you guys around here. Let that new coach get started on his own. I feel bad for DJ, Brandon and Tyler...it's just too difficult to transfer for that senior year...Joe is a redshirt and he can get two more years in, you guys can't...look at it this way...only one more year here and you will be free of this crap. Like the poster stated, it will get worse...especially for you guys. So I would like for you not to have to suffer through that stuff here. I don't think you do either...cut the cord and good luck to all of you guys....
Are you nuts? These guys will not suffer from any alleged shadow cast by Weber on the program. First of all the program is not in shambles right now. Whoever the new coach is will return all players with the possible exception of Leonard. Paul, DJ & Griffy, as you stated, can't really leave with just one year left, and Bertrand, contrary to what you say, cannot leave either. Unless I missed a rules change, you only have 5 years to complete your 4 years of eligibility, so since he already took a redshirt, I don't think he can sit out another year and still get his two remaining years, so in that regard he is in the same boat as the other three juniors. I don't think a mass exodus will occur at all and returning all or nearly all your main players from a team that will still have at least a .500 record will give the new coach a chance to really do something. And, I don't think it will get worse before it gets better, because with solid talent returning next year and under new leadership, the team will be undoubtedly better and since they only lose two main guys the following year in Paul & DJ, I don't think they take a step back the next year. I see the future as brighter, and I do mean the immediate future. I think you forget how easily people put bad times in the rearview mirror and the kids will get plenty of credit next year when they win under a new coach. In fact, I expect the fandom to be saying, see these players are good and we just needed a new coach to lead them in the right direction. I can't see anyone saying that the only reason these kids are winning is because of the new coach. The fans will just use next year's success as a way to pile more on Weber and will have no effect on the players.
To geriatricillini: That's one defeatist, negative, sour, bitter attitude you've got there. I hope it is in no way shared by ANY athlete at the University of Illinois! One of the beautiful things about any athletic effort is the quality of the effort, the "heart", win or lose. We have seen our men's basketball team play with heart and we know they can do it, but if they are infected with the kind of attitude you express - whether it's in a basketball game or in LIFE, then they will be losers, no matter what the score at the end of the game. I hope they are better than that because reinforcing and building "character" is part of being an athlete and part of growing up. You say you're "geriatric" but maybe you've still got some growing to do yourself.
You are one confused guy. If you think the program is so bad, why would you want the fresh talent to leave? We need all of the talent we can get. You must like mediocrity. I want all the new recruits to keep their words and make the basketball program better. You are not thinking clearly.
@ Geriatricillini
this is not choosing split pea or minstroni soup. Open your eyes and look at our incoming class. Who will carry the banner the next year or 2 when Leonard leaves? That is why it will get worse b/c the "good man" Weber will have left us decimated on the recuriting front + he would have left a poorly coached class of existing recruits that would take a year at least to get out of the bad habits intilled by our "nice" guy. Way to twist my words old timer..your either too stupid to figure it out, or too stupid not to realize how defending the status quo is what hurt us
Good luck to them. I like Weber. But I don't seriously think they can pull the upset tonight.
And fans will be entitled to gripe.Don't let Moses Tate and his lockstep surrogates suppress you. Keep posting. When they try to shout you down and call you names, remember that they are folks who want to be told what to think by an authority figure. They would support a government that eliminated free speech.
If you were a true fan instead of adoring Weber brown-nose, you would want what's best for the team. New leadership and coaching by someone that genuinely gets it (like Mike Thomas does) and will make Illinois relevant again and a true contender year in, year out for Big Ten crowns plus high seeds and deep runs in the NCAA tournament. If you prefer reverence to a loser like Bruce Weber instead then you are part of the problem not a supporter and true fan of the solution that is clearly indicated. Luckily the number of stubborn Weber lovers is dwindling fast and is but a small minority anymore. So you don't even speak for the majority. The majority wants Weber gone and wants to have a coach in here that is very successful. The minority like you cling to the past, are satisfied with mediocrity and drag this school down. Plus you are a taliban nazi commie trying to shout down free speech at anyone that isn't just like you. I will not be silenced to suit you.
So now the outspoken PeterE, hiding behind the Internet, says that those who disagree with him are "brown-nose"? What is it that makes you and commenters like "eb88588," who today calls Weber "dufus," and some others such as coaxhdufus, so high and mighty and ultimately cowardly? What character defect is it that explains your inability to respect those with whom you disagree, to question their loyalty to the Illini? What public opinion poll by a respected institution is the basis for your claims?
Sadly, because I believe he is a class act and credit to the university, Bruce's days are all but over, but who wants to wade into the cesspool of comments that some of you offer? Who is trying to shut down free speech, yet whose idea of free speech is it to hide behind anonymity and call others "taliban nazi commie"?
Free speech is not the right to speak in anonymity while attacking others. No self-respecting newspaper would publish an anonymous letter-to-the-editor, which is what the maniacal rantings that appear in these comments are.
Yes, PeterE, you can hate Weber you can hate Zook you can hate Tate, but I hope that you would not wish to be known by whom you hate but by those who could speak to your positive character -- assuming there is something positive to be said once you empty the bile you spew on these boards.
John A. Johnson
Tucson, Arizona
John Johnson and other Weber apologists. I have never stated that I hate Weber. What I said is (that in my opinion) to me Weber is "so lame, so inept, so clueless" and that the thought of him as coach honestly does make me nauseous. I stand by that and exercise my right to express just that. Free speech is exactly that JJ, freedom of speech (not just what you say it is). Unlike you, I don't believe Bruce is a good coach and I would dearly love to see him terminated as coach at Illinois ASAP. I will stand by my own beliefs no matter what. It doesn't make me a bad person just because I don't like him and openly express my views (freedom of expression). If you don't like them, that's tough - not here to please you or make friends. I don't concern myself with the stubborn, adoring Weber fans who number but a very small fraction and yet you constantly demean and shout the Weber critics and detractors down. You try to censor and restrict your fellow man and try to tell everyone what they are allowed to think or allowed to say. Sorry to burst your bubble but Weber's days at Illinois are numbered and despite your clinging to mediocrity he will deservedly be fired for poor performance unacceptable to the AD, trustees and university. Majority of Illini nation - fans, followers, boosters, donors, etc want Weber replaced and he will be soon. With Weber gone, Illinois has chance to be relevant again with a new coach that genuinely gets it and actually demonstrates that he can coach and recruit elite prospects.
Jeez! I would hate to see if you really DID hate someone! I guess the gun would come out! Does your "lynch-mob" mentality want Bruce hung? Or maybe tared & feathered? Maybe cut off a finger, something, anything!! Relax dude! After this year, he will be gone & you can turn your anger on the next coach, or your neighbor's dog or something. Basketball coaches don't usually get canned mid season. Not to smart to fire him now, put JH in charge & then find that a top candidate is out there and expect JH to be too happy about it if he doen't get the job. You will have a new coach for "cannon fodder" next year, just let it play out & take a chill pill. At least some blood pressure meds!
Whoever says this team is loaded is an idiot and has not been watching the same team that i have. I thought i was going to wake up this morning with the good news that weber was fired and all the untalented players with no hearts to boot were transfering out af here. I'm not so lucky though so i have to endure this pain and suffering until the end of the year, which can't come fast enough for Illini Nation. GO ILLINI! Fire Weber tonight. Tell the non players not to even bother suiting up tonight.
It's such a shame that this season has come down to this! CHILDISH! MORONIC comments!! I have been a supporter of Bruce Weber thru the years, mainly because I heard players like Deron, Dee, Augustine & Powell laud him for "coaching them UP". In my mind, if players of that caliber thought that Bruce Weber coached them to a higher level, I was going to support with him. After all, they weren't his recruits, they had to come to that feeling on their own & thru experience! But as most on this board have done, (some NEVER liked him & made it personal), thru the last few years have changed my stance and believe it is time for a change. I agree that things havn't been the same since the '06 season. I know most people say it was Self's players that gave Weber all the success, but it still took a good coaching job to take those players to that level. I'm not sure Self would have taken them that far. Sure, he has the one Championship year, but look at his NCAA resume aside from that year. It is full of 1st & 2nd round defeats! With #1 & #2 seeds no less!
So, for those of us who have grown weary of following the ILLINI program lately, the change is coming. Hopefully we can grab a good coach that can bring this program back where it was 7-8 years ago, a top 10 National program. But, also hopefully that man will show us the same LOYALTY that Bruce Weber has had for this program. I still believe he is a good, honest coach and wish him the best. Why some people have to treat him like he is sub-human, with moronic tirades is beyond me. Our nation was founded on liberty & free speech. It is a shame that many today ABUSE that liberty with comments that are full of hatred & intolerance and show a complete lack of respect for anyone with a different opinion. Sports, Politics & Religion! WOW, can we at least be civil?
tntsher: I like your post and agree with your basic points. For some reason(s), online discussions about this year in Illiinois sports has reached some level of fulmination that is just mean. I am not a "fan" of Weber, but I do not confuse the win/loss record of any of our athletic teams with the status of our university. Feeling down after that strange Nebraska game, I came across an internet list of the universities in the entire world with their number of Nobel prizes won. Of the top 25 - TWENTY-FIVE - of ALL universities in the whole, wide world with the most Nobel prizes won, the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, was on that list. And, you know, I'd like to see any of us who post our comments on the various online forums, go to classes, take tests, write papers. travel across the country several times a month, play a game hard, practice that game hard, and have friends and college experiences, and all the rest. What they're doing is tough and they are kids and they deserve our encouragment, regardless of our feelings for their coach(es).
You really can't win once you've reached this point in a coaching cycle. If you are fired and the next guy fails, it's because your players are bad. If you are fired and the next guy succeeds, it's an indictment of your ability to coach them.
Most of us cheered when we got DJ, Brandon and Joe in a two-day span. "Bruce finally has the recruiting to go with his coaching skills!" Nobody can honestly say they doubted Bruce's coaching acumen after watching Deron and Dee tear the Big Ten up in 2005. Sure, one or two will now claim "I didn't like him even then!" but we all know that's garbage. When Bruce was on the verge of getting Gordon, we thought the tide was turning. Then DJ, Brandon and Joe said "Yes." Meyers came along and now we'd have that big we wanted, and soon Jerrance would start delivering All-Americans to fit into Bruce's tough defense and that beautiful 2005 motion offense...
Well, as it turns out, nothing is as good as it seems (nor as bad as it seems). Bruce can still coach -- he didn't forget anything that made the 2005 team great. He's still the same coach that Deron Williams points to as the guy who got him to the league. But he did cave to the pressures to sign the Chicago kids, the athletes, that we fans said he had to get to win it all. If he had signed the "SIU" style kids, we'd criticize him. If he signed the Chicago kids and they didn't work hard, we criticize. If he passes on the Chicago kids, we'd criticize. Hummel was a local kid that in hindsight would have been a great pickup. But at the time, taking Hummel would have caused an angry outcry from the alumni. There's not much wiggle room for a coach at a place like Illinois.
It's clearly time for a change. Bruce admitted his failures to stay true to what he believes in -- toughness, blue-collar work ethic, fundamentals. He recruited guys with deficiencies that could be overlooked at the high-school level (passing, ball-handling, shooting) so that he could get the "athletes" and the Chicago guys everyone pressed him for (including his staff). Not having one of those skills in high school is no big deal. Not having them in the Big Ten is glaring. At the same time, he (and the staff) didn't motivate those players to develop those skills, and the players didn't take it upon themselves. It's up to the players to improve -- the coaches can only entice them and enable them.
So, we have a coach who KNOWS how to coach, and we have players who have been successful at previous stops. But they just haven't worked well together, and that's been the case for 3 or 4 years now. But they have ALL been a part of that failure -- the players, the staff, and the head coach.
I don't believe Weber is a bad person, but I do believe he is incompetent. Did he coach the NCAA final team to the finals or did they get there despite him? He tried to win with players that fit his style and lost. Now he has tried to win with athletic players and he still loses.
The true answer is to recruit athletic players, fit them to a system that is appropriate to their talents, and smooth off some of the rough edges through the years. By making the massive effort to mold them into Weber clones, it is impossible to have any effort left to improve the basic fundamentals.
How do we consistently score fewer points in the paint to much smaller teams? Because they scout our only defensive scheme and take advantage of it. They also scout our only offensive scheme and take advantage of it also.
But the thing that I dislike the most about Weber is the way he stomps and shouts along the sidelines. It annoys the fans and the referees and confuses the players. This Keady style was not that successful at Purdue. The coaching has to occur in practice and during timeouts. I studied this a couple of years ago and found that Illinois scored a statistically significant fewer number of points when the offensive basket was in front of the Illinois bench (and Weber's yelling). John Wooden's and Bobby Knight's teams were prepared before the game started. They were then able to make minor tweaks without confusing players, who are not usually the smartest guys around.
Hey PeterE & geriatricIllini----please quit taking your meds with alcohol--I hope that is the explanation for some of the comments you both make on this site. If you have something rational and well thought out to add great, but the negativity and insanity in your posts is cause for concern for your doctors.
Weber and the team are experiencing a "perfect storm" this year that will cost Weber his job. UCON and Villanova are having similar years, but we all expected so much out of this Illini team that the frustation has gotten out of control---breathe deep------exhale---and repeat. It's a game with 18-22 year old kids trying to follow instructions and do their best to beat the other team--who are trying to do the same thing. It's unpredictible and addictive--it's not life altering for the fans. Enjoy.
Oh Semo, semo, semo. You are quick to denigrate other posters and yet offer your own know it all feeble opinions that have no more grasp on the truth than others. The perfect storm as you call it (in reality just another in a long line of excuses) has accompanied Weber before or have you forgotten the 2007-2008 season. If you get right down to it, Weber has been a "rider on the storm" for the past 6 years really. Every now and then there is a glimmer of light and calm but then the inevitable storm roars in return, always surrounding Weber. Most of us have tired of Weber's inordinately stormy weather, thank you very much and would prefer a new captain. As for 18-22 year olds (yes, young adults), they seem to be able to follow instructions pretty well and more consistently at other schools which happen to be doing much better. No, our young adults (players) seem to be having an inordinate amount of difficulty and our team is dysfunctional year after year. I believe Weber is at the root of those difficulties, i.e. his recruiting, teaching, developing, communicating, motivating, strategizing, coaching leave much to be desired.
Oh Salty, Salty, Salty----You say: " I believe Weber is at the root of those difficulties, i.e. his recruiting, teaching, developing, communicating, motivating, strategizing and coaching leave much to be desired."
Is there anything about Coach Weber you like???? His honesty??? His clean program????? His dedication to hard work?????? How about his orange blazer???? Surely there is something!!!! It has been a difficult year and one that will cost Bruce Weber his job. I agree a change is needed. I just don't agree with the "over-the-top" negativity and agressive nature of some posters comments. Hope that wasn't too feeble for you.
Ah Semo, that's much better. I believe honesty, running a clean program, hard work and dedication are expected qualities at almost every school for almost every coach. In fact you could say many AD's absolutely demand those in their subordinates and the lack of any of them is often a fireable offense. I think Weber like Zook are likeable guys and both are good people. However being a good person is not enough to keep your job when your performance is subpar and you are not meeting expectations laid out by your boss. So we can both agree like Zook, Weber will most likely lose his job. Yes, I agree some comments on here are over the top. For me I can tolerate and accept comments that are critical of the coaching and I don't expect everyone to accept or even like Weber or his performance. Dislike though is not the same as hating. Actual hating, threats, cursing, name-calling or foul language are way over the top and such comments have no place anywhere and should not be tolerated. Most comments however are critical to various degrees but yet not way over the top. I just ignore them if they are too crass. I do agree with what you said earlier though about it just being a game and keeping things in perspective. It's not life and death. Far from it.
Perfect storm my arse. Just another typical performance from Coach Programkiller. The perfect storm was in 05. I really love these Weber lovers who are too blind to see the big picture. I swear that I wouldn't be sad if about half of you caught the Hale-Bop spaceship out of town with your lemming leader. Weber has sucked at his job at the University of Illinois. He might be the best coach in the world, but he doesn't fit here.
Good post SEMO. I think people are losing perspective. This is just a game, if it ceases to be enjoyable to watch, do something else. Life goes on.
Here in Austin, UT recruits great athletes, four and five stars. They are having a year similar to the Illini, they look like an NIT bound team for sure. But I don't hear any of the vitriol that I see on these boards. Conversely, if they go 7-4 in football, they want Mac Brown's head on a platter! I guess is all comes down to whether you're a "football school" or a "basketball school".
I think what it really comes down to is we're just not getting good players, plain and simple as that. Remember how mediocre Indiana got towards the end of Knight's rein. It wasn't because he became a bad coach all of a sudden. He just didn't play the "payola" recruiting games that other schools played, so he got suckier players. I think Weber is thoroughly honest in recruiting, so he can't compete with NC and Kentucky and Kansas.... So we get less talented players. This last paragraph is all speculation on my part, but I think you have to be pretty naive to think the high four star and five star players are recruited honestly.
Weber says "man up". Wow - a real man would man down, as in step down Bruce. You are embarrassing yourself and your university. Your team has given up on you. Why? They are tired of your antics, your practices, your calling them out and the list goes on. Be a man and quit. You hae not shot of coming back year, so give J. Howard a chance to show what he can do. He would proably win, because he would play a damn zone and let these guys run and attach the basket. Also... Succky Sam would become the ball boy!
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