Illini pressed; Are they getting overconfident?
CHAMPAIGN — What did No. 24 Illinois learn after outlasting Coppin State 80-63 in front of 14,811 at the Assembly Hall on Sunday?
One, this is a great time to have five days before the Illini's next game — against UNLV in Chicago on Saturday. The early season came rapid fire; it's the first time there's been a five-day break since the season opened.
Between exam week (which started Friday) and the rush of games (three in eight days), there was hardly time to see the big picture (Illinois reached the Top 25 before Bruce Weber's stated goal of Christmas).
Still, you get the sense the Illini have started to believe all the flattering things being said about their first 10-0 start since 2005-06.
"I'm sure some have (read the press clippings). I'm sure it's a combination of being 10-0 and not treating practice like we're 10-0," said senior Sam Maniscalco, whose duty is to help keep them grounded. "We've had a few practices the past three weeks that haven't been really good. Not a lot of intensity, not a lot of concentration."
Chances are, the coaches will take it easy on the players in the early part of this week — before reminding them that a pair of teams with losing records pushed them to the limit.
St. Bonaventure (3-4) held a nine-point lead with about five minutes left. Coppin State (3-5) trailed by just two with 8:02 remaining. Illinois won, but didn't look like a Top 25 team doing it.
"If we don't have their attention after St. Bonaventure and tonight, I hope they're a little humbled right now," Weber said after the game.
Coppin State's surge was less dangerous than St. Bonaventure's. The Eagles cut a 17-point deficit to two but never seemed to make the Illini nervous.
And that could be a problem. Instead of showing a sense of urgency — like the UI did in narrow wins against Illinois State and Gonzaga — the Illini gave the impression the win would simply happen.
"A little scary there for a while," Weber said.
It wasn't until Weber re-inserted the starters that Illinois closed on a 21-6 run to ice it.
"Their depth did hurt us," Coppin State coach Fang Mitchell said. "We did get a little tired down the stretch."
Meyers Leonard was part of a double-technical foul midway through the first half, though he was uncertain why he was whistled for the foul.
"I have no idea," he said.
Weber said the officials met with the teams before the game to let them know nonsense wouldn't be tolerated in the wake of the Xavier-Cincinnati brawl Saturday.
"No one's going to put up with anything. They don't want a problem," Weber said. "Any kind of tussle, hassle, they're going to step in and make sure nothing happens."
D.J. Richardson tied his career high with 20 points. Brandon Paul and Sam Maniscalco had 12 apiece. Leonard had his second double-double (18 points, 11 rebounds).
"A lot of people think he's a lottery pick," ESPN analyst Stephen Bardo said before the game.
The bench, considered a team strength, has stagnated in the past two games. The Illini reserves were outscored for the fourth straight game (18-10).
"It's human nature — no matter what I say — everybody's telling them after Gonzaga (they've arrived)," Weber said. "Maybe in a way it's a good thing (that) some guys didn't play well."
On a night new football coach Tim Beckman was introduced to the Assembly Hall crowd, the Illini were served a reminder that fast starts don't guarantee a satisfying season. Just ask Illini football.
"If we don't start making some strides, things can go the other way," said Weber, who added the extensive substitutions factored into the herky-jerky pace of play.
Actually, you seem to be the one in lockstep blind opposition, disagreeing with what is written regardless of what is reported or how it is said. I could actually agree with some of the points you make, but your tone makes it impossible to take you seriously.
When you behave like a child on here, you're going to have the credibility of a child.
Hey Bruce, maybe you should be looking in the mirror some on this. What purpose is served with St. B, Coppin and Cornell this late in the OOC? Wins are nice, but I don't think most of us still know what we've got yet. When the only adversity you've faced is from St. Bonny, you haven't seen adversity.
Agreed. It would be one thing if we were playing Top 20 competition. But Weber's scheduling is bound to test only the fans' patience, not the team's ability. These are patsies, and they do not help prep the Illini for the Big Ten season. The NCAA tourney committee will not be fooled come March.
P.S. Just once, I would like to see Leonard establish position on the low block, call for (and get the ball), and make a move to the basket. Even against tiny opponents, he's getting pushed out of the box and underneath the rim. I don't know what the ESPN announcers were watching, but Leonard's "positioning" stunk. Against Sullinger, he's going to end up in the first row of the seats.
I love these blanket statements. Interesting that you make it in an article that's actually fairly critical of the Illini's play the last two games. Do you actually read them, or do you have your pithy comment already in hand and just post it without any actual thought?
This is in reply to Moonpie...thought I hit reply on his comment, but it didn't put it below his.
Well, sinfonian11, I sure do read the articles, which is often painful from a sports tribe as lazy as this crew. You seem to object to anyone calling them on it when they shamelessly hype and underreport. Apparently you are part of a segment here that simply can't stand it that someone might disagree with you or have a different view on events. I believe that's called tyranny.
Um, no. More sweeping generalities on your part. Just looking for a specific example of this "hype" you're spouting off about. It's certainly not in this article. Specifics, please.
I think everyone knew this non-conference schedule wasn't all that difficult. UNLV is pretty good, and Missouri is off to a great start this season. We'll know more about this team after those two games. So far, they've passed every test put in front of them, but we still don't know all that much.
They scheduled two cupcakes for the past two games because its finals week.
They didn't want to put a lot pressure on the kids by working them hard in practice, game plans, and film study. Just enough of a game to keep their attention. Nearly every college does the same way by scheduling light over finals.
This is ridiculous. I'm not saying their schedule has been insanely strong, but they have performed well for the most part. With 7 new players, and really only 2 in D.J. and Brandon that have only seen significant playing time, Weber was smart to not schedule it quite as tough in order to build some continuity with his players. This team plays with much more tenacity, and honestly I think they're ready for some of these tougher challenges. Leonard may be a little raw still, but he's realizing his potential and is a true big man. At least he's not useless down low like Tisdale was. He's actually got some beef on him. It's amazing to me that even at 10-0 we can still be so stinkin pessimistic. I like us against UNLV, but Mizzou will be a big challenge, and we better be ready to guard in that game.
It is sometimes easy to forget that this team is as young as it is. It is nice to see more hustle than in the past few years, and scoring balance is looking pretty good. We needs lots of work on blocking out, and making sure we have rebounders when someone decides to shoot a trey. I agree the schedule has been weak, but given all the freshman we are playing it is probably a smart way to go? What good does it do if we play a bunch of ranked teams and lose so many games that the whole team is demoralized for the year and we get no invitation to the tourney because we have 15 or more losses? Most of the other good teams play lots of easy games early on also. It is a bit disconcerting that we never seem to be guarding anyone on 3 point shots, and we never seem to leave any of the freshman that have been fairly good scorers and or rebounders, in the game long enough to produce any stats? I thought that Bertrand led the team in points and rebounds in many early games and in preseason, and Mike Henry had a double double in the only two games that he got very much playing time. I would hate to see the team make the mistake of never letting these guys play, and then when we really need them they will not be ready to contribute. How can they score so much early and not be good enough to play now? Maybe they are not good at some other fundamentals, but it seems as though we hurt Griffey by not letting him play more last year and we don't need another repeat of that.
What a bunch of crapola. If you follow college basketball you would know that most if not all programs try to make their schedule based on the team they are going to be putting on the floor that year. As someone else said, it would be ridiculous to schedule a plethora of top twenty teams to see our guys trampled and their self esteem wiped out before they get accustomed to playing together. After all there are 6 freshmen on this squad. I for one am glad they have had the schedule they have, now lets hope they've learned from it. The next couple of games are going to show where we are and give us an idea of what we can expect.
GO ILLINI!!
There's nothing wrong with Illinois thinking they're good because they are good. They need confidence, or swagger, if they're going to win the big games or bounce back from losing a bad game. If Illinois keeps winning they'll get even more confident, and that's really not a problem for me. They'll lose eventually regardless of their humility or lack thereof.
I'm really confused by what some of the fans on here are expecting as well. We are a young team in what was supposed to be a rebuilding year. I for one thought we'd struggle a heck of a lot more than we have even with our "easy" schedule. The truth is there is no such thing as an easy game, especially games away from home and against good teams at home. I think the games in Mexico against Richmond and ISU and the game in Maryland were very good tests for this young squad. And the neutral games against UNLV and Mizzou and a home game against a good Gonzaga team are also stern OOC tests. I just don't think in a year where we are trying to build chemistry and confidence we want to play 5 OOC games against Top 10 teams. Really, how many of you expected us to be 10-0 at this point? I personally had us at 7-3. No we aren't blowing teams out and we have had a few tough games against mediocre teams, but to blame schedulers and say we haven't learned anything about this team seems to me like a lot of hysterics.
N-Richmond, N-ISU, @Maryland, H-Gonzaga, H-St. Bonaventure, SH-UNLV, N-Missouri. That is far from a cupcake schedule for a young team.
We've learned that this team can play hard and as a team. We learned that this team will have senior leaders who will rise up and make plays when the game is on the line, and we've learned so far that even in letdown games and trap games (St. Bonaventure was certainly a trap- A young newly ranked team coming off a big win against a relative no-namer with a team of upperclassmen good enough to catch by surprise, lull to sleep, and take down a Top 25 team) we have had the mental fortitude to win games in the final 4 minutes instead of playing not to lose.
We will not be a 30 win team this year or even a 25 win team this year, but we are well ahead of where I thought we would be at this point, and well ahead where it seems everyone else thought we would be. We may not be a great team this year, but if we play hard and show effort game in and game out, we can be a good competitive team, and I'll take that over the 15-17 season I saw us coming in with. And next year, if Meyers Leonard were to stay (which seems improbable) we truly could have something special.
As always, GO ILLINI!
Haha Moonpie, you're full of more s*hit than a Christmas goose, but I think you're really funny.
I really like this team, and Bruce is my man until the end of time. Anybody talkin shiz about Bruce right now and wants his head to roll, just look to the latest hire by Mike Thomas. #KeeptheMACouttatheBiGTen. Ibby Djimde and more Crandall minutes. Night night.
I like what the team has showed so far. I think we all know we're going to take our lumps in the Big 10, but we could finish in the upper half of the conference and maybe win a game (or two?) in the tourney. That would be a success with this young team.
I could use a little less talk of Leonard the lottery pick. He's just scratching the surface. In the old days he wouldn't dare to dream of leaving for the NBA early, let alone after his sophmore year after so few minutes of playing time his freshman year. Let him become a good, consistent college player before all this talk of NBA.
I, for one, have been a huge fan of Bruce Weber. Is he a perfect coach? No. But I feel like he has had to deal with as much crap as anyone in coaching during his tenure at Illinois. The guy is averaging 24 wins a year, not counting this season, which I would highly doubt we end up with less than at least 20. Everyone likes to give him crap about the 2nd rate recruiting. What's funny is he's actually recruited fairly well, but has been dealt some unfortunate circumstances.
I know some people like to point out the '07-'08 season where we finished 16-19 and 5-13 in the Big Ten. People forget the players that were supposed to be on that team. We ended up with a starting backcourt of Trent Meachem and Chester Frazier, and a freshman 6th man named Demetri McCamey. If there wouldn't have been an Indiana crook named Kelvin Sampson, and a stupid decision behind the wheel, our starting backcourt WOULD have been Eric Gordon and blossoming Jamar Smith, with Frazier, Meachem, and McCamey off the bench. That would have been the Big 10's best backcourt hands down.
Ya think our record might have been a little different had that been our team???
It's just frustrating how people seem to forget the explanations of some of those subpar seasons that he's had here. But that team mentioned above had it not been decimated like it was could have challenged for a Big 10 title, and at least a Sweet 16 run if not more. No doubt in my mind.
And let's not forget to mention what this year would look like if Jereme Richmond did not have some SERIOUS issues. But all Weber has done is STILL coach this team to an undefeated record up to this point.
I do, however, think last year's team could have been better and they did underachieve. But they still fought to the end, and looked impressive in the dance, and even gave Kansas all they could handle for the majority of the game.
Just trying to give Bruce a little credit here!
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Who is to say Gordon, had he come here (which he clearly didn't want to do), wouldn't have gotten injured and been a nonfactor?
Weber's problems are twofold:
1. He can't recruit. Putting all your eggs in the basket of Richmond was a fool's plan. You need more than one highly touted player to compete in the Big Ten.
2. He can't coach. That stupid motion offense does nothing except waste clock. It doesn't generate easy baskets. The high-low Self ran is getting some new looks with Griffey and Leonard, and thank god. If you have big but nonphysical players, that's a much better offense to run. (Of course, he had Tisdale here for 4 years and only figured out at the end that he was a Brad Sellers type, not a Shaq.)
The wins are crap. He schedules a bunch of patsies, then wonders why the team collapses against real competition. Shades of Henson. Self won the Big 10 three straight years. Weber only won with Self's players. It's past time to get a real coach.
I'm tired of hearing the Henson bashing. The two years before Henson arrived, the Illini were 5-18 under Harv Schmidt, who was fired, and 8-18 under Gene Bartow, who came from Memphis to save the program, but instead got us put on probation and bolted for UCLA. Henson took over a program on probation with very little talent. The Illini had lost to Indiana and Michigan by 40+ points before his arrival. He beat Indiana, the defending National Champions, in his first season. He brought in the first big name recruit, Levi Cobb, in his first class. Cobb started at center his freshman and sophomore seasons, despite being only 6'6". His junior and senior seasons were spent on the bench, because the talent level had increased so dramatically that he wasn't one of the top ten. In his 4th season, Henson went 19-11. After that, 20+ win seasons were the norm. Henson had two losing seasons at Illinois in 21 years as head coach. Once he rebuilt the program, the Illini saw postseason action in 15 of 17 seasons. The two seasons without tournament play were the result of probation thanks to Bruce Pearl. Even one of those seasons was a 21 win campaign. Henson turned the Illini into a top 20 program. He should be revered.
Lanphier is right.
Henson's teams were always poorly conditioned, something that became clear when Kruger took over. And Weber's teams are poorly conditioned, too. It shows up in the free throw shooting and the mental and defensive breakdowns at the end of games.
Speaking of free throws, Weber apparently doesn't believe in them. It would be nice if this team could get to the line. But when your offense boils down to dribbling out the clock and then hoisiting up threes, that just doesn't happen.
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