So what you are saying, Loren, is "Let the 16 and 17 year old lunatics run the asylum"?

When was the last time Duke was in the Final 4, yet year after year it gets pretty much whomever it wants. Hats off to Self, but KU had some pretty fair players before he arrived -- I remember one who joined the Globetrotters after his junior year, 'Chamberlin' was his name, I believe.

The bigger problem for Big Ten fans is that a game like the PSU game was not exciting. I think more is owed to the fans than to one-and-out recruits.

Posted by jjohnson on February 24, 2009 at 9:08 PM  |  Suggest Removal

JJohnson, you may want to check the rosters of the national champions and Final Four teams year in and year out, and you'll find those highly rated recruits and future NBA players.

Posted by ebalexan on February 24, 2009 at 9:53 PM  |  Suggest Removal

If the ACC played defense like the Big Ten does, those scores would be a lot lower. It's still five on five on the court. Was Luther Head a All American? Was James Augustine or Roger Powell? Let the Chicago kids go to the ACC if they want. Last time I checked the Big 12 wasn't that much better then the Big Ten. And if I remember correctly, Bill Self brought in Dee Brown and would have had Charlie Villenueva and Sherron Collins....its not the league, its the coaches. And Bruce Weber has done a fine job of finding guys like Jamar Smith (it was his fault he couldn't abide by the law) and Mike Davis and Demetri McCamey. loren why don't you do a story on how good of a coach weber is. I guess Izzo is a terrible recruiter too since he is in the Big Ten/

Posted by cnichols401 on February 24, 2009 at 10:41 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Cnichols, with all due respect (which is none, it would seem), you typed a lot of words to say absolutely nothing. The ACC does play defense. The scores are higher because the players have much more offensive talent and the teams play at a faster pace. Duke and Wake are both in the Top 15 in defensive efficiency, but played a high-scoring game because they have very good scorers and don't play the game at a crawl.

Back to the column. Okay, so the Big Ten didn't get any McDonald's All-Americans this year. Still, it seems an odd time to pick on the Big Ten's recruiting. There are a ton of talented sophomores in the league, and there are some really good players coming in over the next two years, even if no burger boys. Indiana, Illinois and Minnesota have the Nos. 8, 10 and 21 classes in the 2009 team rankings on Rivals; there are FOUR Big Ten teams in the 2010 rankings (OSU No. 1, Illinois 3, Purdue 9 and Wisconsin 10).

The Big Ten's recruiting is returning to a par with the rest of the country, even with a flukish class of no McD's AA's.

Posted by on February 25, 2009 at 3:44 AM  |  Suggest Removal

First off there is no defense in the ACC. If they were that good they should be locking down any team outside of the ACC with the athletes. If anything the Big East is by far the best conferance.

I will agree with Weber the way the pick the McDonalds teams are total bull.

Also, how long before high school kids start holding off on there college choices until the McDonalds game like they do in football?

Posted by Jshaw on February 25, 2009 at 8:26 AM  |  Suggest Removal

One key, as Klee has mentioned and as Beilein has bemoaned, is that the Big Ten referees don't call fouls like the ACC, Big East or NBA refs do. We have a lot more grabbing, bumping and pushing in the Big Ten. It makes our "defense" more effective, because smooth athletes and good shooters don't get the freedom the are afforded in other leagues. We then get to the NCAA or NBA and rack up the fouls. And during Big Ten games, we end up with lower scores. At least, that's my theory. I'd love to see the Big Ten go through a two-year tightening of the foul calls. It would be ugly at first, but eventually, we can get to a more fluid, less contact-intensive league which would be more entertaining for fans and more appealing for recruits.

Posted by ptevonian on February 25, 2009 at 9:45 AM  |  Suggest Removal

LegionOfDoom, with all due respect (which is none, it would seem with a name like that) the ACC teams play at a faster pace because there is no defense and the officials call everything, whereas in the Big Ten you have a lot of no-calls and agressive play which is harder to score on. Carolina and Duke will always get the AA's because as soon as some kid says he is interested in one of them, they become an AA candidate. The NCAA is like your high school, they have their clicks. Remember, in 2005 Illinois' motion offense was the envy of the college baskeball world. They scored tons of points and played a faster pace. It's on the coaches shoulders, the league dosen't matter

Posted by cnichols401 on February 25, 2009 at 9:48 AM  |  Suggest Removal

I agree the ACC calls every little tick tack foul they can come up with.

Posted by Jshaw on February 25, 2009 at 10:09 AM  |  Suggest Removal

burger boys are high profile, but look at the top players in the country this year. Where's the beef?

Plenty of talent outside the golden arches.

What constitutes the top conference? All I know is that teams like BC and Prov hadn't done anything until conference play began. ACC & BE may get all the hype, however, don't sell short Big 10, PAC 10 & even B12. I'm not certain that some tourney teams from the hyped 2 wouldn't be in the same shape as Mich if they played a Big 10 schedule.

Posted by illiniphil85 on February 25, 2009 at 10:10 AM  |  Suggest Removal

What is more fun to watch? High scoring with fouls called to stop the game every min or so, or low scoring letting the guys play?

Id like to know how last years Golden Archers are doing this year on there teams. Im not sure id take one of them over Chester Frazier right now.

Posted by Jshaw on February 25, 2009 at 10:36 AM  |  Suggest Removal

JShaw, there's a faulty premise in that question: It sounds like you think the ACC is a constant stream of fouls being called while the Big Ten guys "let em play". A quick look at the last 15 games played in each league (that's all I had time to look at), the ACC had an average of 36.4 personal fouls called per game. The Big Ten averaged 33 fouls called each game. So that's roughly 4 more fouls called over 40 minutes of playing time. At the current rates of freethrow shooting, that might amount to 5 or 6 more points being scored.

At the same time, in those same games, the ACC averaged 152 points scored per game, while the Big Ten scored 121 points per game -- 31 points per game fewer!

Calling fouls appropriately wouldn't mean slowing the game down, or necessarily calling MORE fouls. The players would adapt after a season or two and you'd have more fluid play with more scoring. You'll still have fouls, but you won't have the sort of grabbing and holding that slows down and clogs up the Big Ten games.

Posted by ptevonian on February 25, 2009 at 11:19 AM  |  Suggest Removal

Well watching ACC games it sure seems like there are more fouls called. Look at what great athletes and no defense has done for OSU. Sure they had one great season, but that was mostly Oden to thank for that.

Posted by Jshaw on February 25, 2009 at 11:27 AM  |  Suggest Removal

I agree defense is required for consistent winning, but then so is scoring. I suspect that the level of contact allowed in a Big Ten game is simply higher than in ACC games. Guys will still push the limits until fouls are called (thus both leagues avg very similar numbers of fouls called), but the fouls in the ACC would be considered "ticky tack" by Big Ten standards. A "standard" foul in the Big Ten might be considered flagrant in the ACC. All the contact in the Big Ten, though, means shooters are less able to shoot unencumbered, and I think shoot lower percentages. Also, I think possessions take longer to get a good shot because players can't move as easily through nasty picks and clutching and grabbing. The contact evens the playing field so that great scorers can't score as well, and unskilled "bangers" can still be effective. Thus, the Big Ten attracts bangers and not "skilled" scorers. Which I think is what Loren's article was about.

Posted by ptevonian on February 25, 2009 at 11:47 AM  |  Suggest Removal

The argument about 'Big Ten refs' and how they call fouls is folly.

I see Hillary and Hightower and Valentine and O'Neil (and even Higgins) officiating games in the ACC or Big East or Big 12 as well as the Big 10 EVERY night of the week.

They do not call the fouls any differently just because Rich Falk or Delaney are watching....or because the game is on the Big 10 Network....or because the game is in a certain city.

Posted by CecilColeman on February 25, 2009 at 5:50 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Just a "footnote" to one of the listed members of McDonald's All-America teams: Micah Downs, who orginally signed with Kansas, is now playing for Gonzaga. (Only a point of interest, nothing else.)

Posted by dgcrow on February 25, 2009 at 7:05 PM  |  Suggest Removal