Loren:

The "by some" comment is just crazy. Any outside observer looking at the Illini football program would be stunned by the decision to renovate Memorial Stadium while saddling a team with a schedule that removed one home game to a neutral site every other year (the 2010 season for example). That same observer would be equally flabbergasted by looking at scheduling that apparently does everything in its power to prevent the team from qualifying for a bowl game.

A non-conference schedule featuring Missouri, Cincinnati and Fresno State? How could Guenther ignore the sad, woeful history of Illinois football when it comes to scheduling? His scheduling for the football program is absolutely and utterly indefensible, even though you consistently try to do it. . .

Posted by peterborich on November 10, 2009 at 12:18 AM  |  Suggest Removal

You ares till wanting to run things and because you didn't get your way this is sour grapes. What happens if the rest of the season turns out to be a success. Are you going to take credit? Lets face it Illinois and Guenther has no choice at this time but to support Zook and you don't like that.

Posted by laptop on November 10, 2009 at 6:28 AM  |  Suggest Removal

81-123-2. 5 bowl games in 17 seasons on the job, and counting.

Posted by MarkHoekstra on November 10, 2009 at 7:18 AM  |  Suggest Removal

Don't you mean 1866?

Posted by JRan on November 10, 2009 at 7:43 AM  |  Suggest Removal

You should teach geometry considering all the tangents you made in that article.

Guenther must go. So no other person could have accomplished the same in that amount of time? Maybe if we went to bowl games by playing an easier non-conference, we wouldn't have to sell ourselves out to play in St.Louis and only have 6 home games!

Posted by illinizeeman on November 10, 2009 at 8:17 AM  |  Suggest Removal

I think that most IL fans LIKE Zook as a person.

I think that most IL fans WANT to believe Zook will win. If these two things were not factual, the storm would be blowing just as hard now as before.

The recent 2 game winning streak is a total surprise to any fan with any sense. However, if the team loses bad to NW, the hounds will be baying again. I am more severe in my beliefs regarding the security of Zook's job. I really believe he has to win Northwestern, and Fresno, then go on to compete in a close game (hopefully win) against Cincy. Winning out and getting a bowl bid (I think if IL wins out they are a shoe in for a minor bowl), then Zook saves the day and his job. A near miss at Cincy probably saves him for next year. Frankly, a loss at Cincy could easily be followed by a loss against Fresno simply because of the loss of bowl eligibility down feeling for the players. They have to beat NW and Play tough at Cincy. Fresno is less important if they lose at Cincy, a must win if they beat CIncy. So...next year if they start out the season like this year, Zook should not finish the season if he is still here.

Posted by on November 10, 2009 at 8:25 AM  |  Suggest Removal

IL didn't lose this year because of their schedule. They lost because they played terrible. Most of the opposing teams didn't beat them as much as bad play calling, dropped passes, missed receivers, fumbles, blocked kicks and punts, and draw plays on 3rd and 20 killed them. This schedule is a great schedule if you believe your team will compete for the B10 championship. WHy? Because if you win the B10 championship, you go into Cincy and Fresno with a big momentum builder. Beat them both and you are looking at National Championship talk. Those other teams could win out and not make NC talk because their schedules are terrible. Also, would you rather win out and go to a bowl that is a mismatch, or end up in a reasonable bowl? If IL played decent this year, they would make 6 wins easily. IF they lose to Cincy with 6 wins, they look at a minor bowl that is definitely winable. If they play crap, leading to a higher bowl and a mismatch, they get blown out again. Which is better? A few extra wins against patsys in the season so they can get man-handled in the post season, or not to show up at all. No, I'ld rather they don't make a bowl and play a good set of teams. Either you are bowl material or you are not. If the B10 is down as many contend (though I think is way overblown), then you better pick up your good teams outside the conference....why you think Boise is making sweetheart deals to play good teams?

Posted by on November 10, 2009 at 8:32 AM  |  Suggest Removal

Sorry, mim, some people have such short fuses that they can't get what you are trying to say, that, for instance, it was a player that fumbled inside the 10 at Indiana, another player who dropped a pass, and on and on and on. They would be happier playing in the Flushing, Long Island, toilet Bowl than competing for the BCS title. Zook and the staff have screwed up, too, but I think the biggest screw-up is that people have overlooked the paucity of juniors and seniors in the OL and DL. Now the freshman and sophomores are beginning to develop and it makes everyone look better. Loren is right, but some just need to wail.

Posted by jjohnson on November 10, 2009 at 9:05 AM  |  Suggest Removal

3 comments...

1. Why does RG handle the football schedule while the BW & staff get to do their own schedule.

2. I though RG was scheduled to retire (this year or maybe next) anyway, so near term this issue will take care of itself.

3. I agree w/ mlm above, in that if you are a good team, then you simply beat teams like Fresno at home & Missouri on neutral field. If we schedule mostly weak teams at home, Illini Nation begins to complain about that too (see BB situation for doing the same thing in preseason)

Posted by walker on November 10, 2009 at 9:15 AM  |  Suggest Removal

was referring to pre- BT season in #3 above

Posted by walker on November 10, 2009 at 9:17 AM  |  Suggest Removal

Mr. Tate -

I feel Mr. Guenther has spoken too quickly on the retention of Coach Zook. I have had the opportunity while living in SEC country to see Coach Zook at Florida and there seems to be a repetitive trend. He can recruit like nobody's business but when it comes to coaching, at least at game time, he can't follow through. Granted coming to Florida after Spurrier took a lot of guts.

Regardless of whether we are bowl eligible, I don't think it would be deserving this year. There is so much athletic talent on this team that has underproduced the entire year I think I would be ashamed as a coach and/or coaching staff. Who exactly is doing the play calling? Why are we running on 3rd & 10?

I do hope some changes are made but maybe starting at the top of the athletic department and working the way down would be the best bet. Maybe Guenther can take his fundraising abilities and go work for a couple of rural hospital boards.

Posted by mcripe1 on November 10, 2009 at 9:21 AM  |  Suggest Removal

"Long ago I learned that coaches want me to be their PR representative."

I don't think coaches want you to be their PR representative. They want you to fairly and accurately report on the situation without inflammatory remarks questioning their character and passion. This is the part that you don't get.

"Like, at my age, I'm going to change?"

You are right, you aren't going to change. You haven't gotten it before, and you aren't going to get it now.

Posted by ax474 on November 10, 2009 at 9:48 AM  |  Suggest Removal

I keep asking, but don't get an answer...

WHERE WAS IT THAT GUENTHER COACHED?????

Posted by Fourtfour on November 10, 2009 at 9:49 AM  |  Suggest Removal

RG is doing a good job as AD, and Coach Zook is also doing a good job. Mackovick had a good record, but understood that Texas gave him more opportunity. White brought excitement, but got caught up in recruiting violations. Blackman had a great record, until he got to Illinois.

Why do the fans think that anyone else will be different? Zook has elevated the level of recruiting which is why he was hired. Retention is a problem I assume because the UI expects their students to go to class.

This team has beaten three teams they should have beaten, and appear to have hit a confidence level that is growing. Leaders are emerging. The O and D lines are improving thus the improved play.

Loren keep writing, Zook keep coaching, and RD keep ADing. The world will survive.

Posted by Jam on November 10, 2009 at 12:38 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Your oblivious to it? Is that why you mentioned the "You don't believe" comment in your letter, because it doesn't mean anything to you? Get real.

You brought up again that RG told Glen Mason about retaining Zook and are now saying it was too soon. Isn't the real issue that he told someone else first?

The real problem is you. You are a negative person who thinks they should have some say in the direction of Illini athletics. An objective journalist would have never written that piece. You want Zook out, you think you can influence decisions from your pulpit at the NG, and you counted on Illini Nation to embrace your call to action. That's pure ego with zero objectivity.

This article just proves that point. You are using "logic and being reasonable" while the rest of us are just being immature. It must be nice to live in your world, where you see things the way they are and the rest of us have no clue.

Lastly, thanks for saving Ikenberry from all of this mess. (Ha!) The truth is that Ikenberry understands the big picture of Illini athletics, understands all of the positives that have taken place under Ron Guenther's tenure, and realizes how lucky the University is to have someone as dedicated, smart, and saavy as AD.

Posted by bud on November 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM  |  Suggest Removal

MarkHoekstra said it all when he cited the overall football record during the Guenther tenure. Ron Guenther has gotten facilities built, but has overseen the decline of Illinois football to the Big Ten basement, and we're not exactly talking a power league over that 17-year span. If the measure of success is facilities and avoiding red ink, which I believe is the standard for Illinois, Guenther has succeeded. If the measure is, or encompasses, the performance of the key athletic program, namely football, then Guenther has done far less well. His coaching selections have to be assessed in hindsight, as that is the only viable, non-speculative indicator we have. Those selections have been abysmal. Granted, one must consider the reputation Illinois has (one of very tepid support for the major revenue sports and outright resistance from some quarters within the University), the location, the condtion of the Big Ten, and other limiting variables. Nonetheless, like it or not, fair or not, the weight of judgment falls most heavily on the AD for a moribund and faltering football program.

Despite the two-game winning street, this season we've witnessed the program slide to new levels of embarrassing play, reflecting truly poor coaching, play calling, and personnel use.

Mr. Tate long has been a capable journalist and, from where I sit, and notwithstanding his self-assessment, generally an Illini apologist. Recently, he has posed fair and objective questions about the football program and it's leadership, questions that necessarily spill over into the general state of athletic administration at the UI. For this he should be praised, not castigated. Believe me, he has longer and better perspective than virutally anyone, and I am always interested in his take on the condition of Illinois athletics. This is no exception.

Posted by GiffordIllini on November 10, 2009 at 2:10 PM  |  Suggest Removal

The different views being expressed are healthy. I would like the annual performance objectives for RZ and RG publicized so we can see what the criteria are that they are suppose to achieve. As a public institution, that should be fair enough ... even though RG runs a very exclusive club a privileged few have access too.

Posted by TotalIlliniFan on November 10, 2009 at 2:13 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Count how many times the words "I", "me", or "my" appear in this article. The reporter has become the story. That should never happen Loren.

Posted by RAM on November 10, 2009 at 2:15 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Here is the answer to where did Ron Guenther coach for Fourtfour.

I found this article mentioning Ron Guenther at the following website.

http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-xc/spec-rel/090607aaa.html

Here is the part that talks about Ron Guenther and where he coached along with his brother Hank Guenther at North Central College in Illinois.

Maybe this explains why Ron Guenther doesn't have a problem with co-coordinators since Ron and his brother were both listed as co-coaches of the football team.

"His memories of the Orange and Blue are still being made today. When Carius was the athletics director at North Central Colllege, he hired Hank Guenther as football coach, who in turn hired his brother, Ron, as associate head coach. Ron would later be named Illinois' director of athletics, a position in which he still serves today."

I looked up the football record for North Central College during the time that Ron and his brother coached at the college which was during the 1975 through 1978 time period.

Here's where I found these football records.

http://northcentralcardinals.com/sports/2009/4/13/FB_0413094218.aspx?id=252

Year Coach Overall CCIW (Place)

1978 Hank & Ron Guenther 6-3 5-3 (T-3rd)

1977 Hank & Ron Guenther 6-3 5-3 (T-3rd)

1976 Hank & Ron Guenther 5-3-1 4-3-1(5th)

1975 Hank & Ron Guenther 5-3-1 5-2-1(2nd)

Since Ron was coaching along with his brother Hank it'll be hard for any critic of Ron Guenther to say how much of the success or failure of the North Central College football team was his fault or his brother's fault.

So now anyone that cares will know why Ron Guenther is called Coach Guenther.

Posted by IlliniFanAtEIU1953 on November 10, 2009 at 6:24 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Hey ax74 - Loren's job isn't to report. He's not a reporter or beat writer. He's a columnist. His job is to give his opinion. There's a difference.

Posted by ebalexan on November 10, 2009 at 7:04 PM  |  Suggest Removal

RG also coached at BC.

Posted by rocko on November 10, 2009 at 7:51 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Rocko,

I saw your comment that Ron Guenther also coached at BC.

I'm assuming that when you say BC that you're talking about Boston College, aren't you?

I went and looked up the coaching records for the Boston College football team and I didn't see Ron Guenther's name mentioned as an offensive or defensive coordinator or as the head football coach.

Here's the link to the website that I looked up this information at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_College_Eagles_football#Coaches

Of course, Ron Guenther could have been one of the position coaches and wouldn't have shown up in this list of coaches or coordinators.

Do you know what part of the football team that Ron Guenther would have coached at Boston College?

Posted by IlliniFanAtEIU1953 on November 10, 2009 at 8:20 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Why bother making reader comments available, when most comments are semi-literate, vitriolic diatribes apparently intended to eviscerate the people who know and care the most about Illini athletics?

Posted by OrlandoIllini on November 10, 2009 at 9:12 PM  |  Suggest Removal

Loren: You are small time. To sing the praises of a guy like Ron Guenther is inexcusable. The guy has virtually bankrupted the football program (NOTE: # 1 most important for any D-I program) over a 17 year period.

Name another U of I athletic director that has done the same over a 17 year period! In fact, name a 17 year stretch where Illinois football has been this sickening bad. Probably runs from 1964-1981, and we all know what the cause of that was.

This time, Guenther has NO excuse, other than he is a total dumb ass that has failed at the most important aspect of his job.

Posted by IlliniHimey on November 10, 2009 at 10:16 PM  |  Suggest Removal

It's impossible to take Loren's comments seriously when he so obviously lacks objectivity when judging Ron Guenther as an AD. A football record of 81-123-2 speaks for itself.

Loren, we get it. You love "Coach Guenther". Just keep it to yourself, you're embarrassing yourself here.

Posted by IlliniOllie on November 10, 2009 at 10:54 PM  |  Suggest Removal