Lots of posts on here about what would happen if Illinois athletics were a business. If Illinois athletics were a business (and it is BIG business) the board would already be looking for a new CEO. Given the current state of things with admissions scandals, etc....a lot of this "like a business" activity is already underway. Lets examine a thorough corporate housecleaning, shall we?

1) Fire the Board of Directors - Check

2) Fire the CEO Richard Herman - Check (in progress)

3) Fire the President Joe White - Check (in progress)

4) Fire the Senior VP Ron Guenther - To Do

5) Fire the Chief Operations Officer Ron Zook - To do

6) Fire the managers that report to the COO - To do

Lets take things in a nice Fortune 500 order. I am good with firing the COO, but, lets proceed with proven business strategies and clean house from the top down.

well said

does Chancellor Herman still consider RG to be the best AD in the country?

Does Loren Tate still say that RG is UI's most indispensable employee?

Has an AD at any other BCS school made three football head-coaching hires as bad as Guenther's and kept his or her job?

putting things in perspective...Guenther has been our AD since 1992 - current...football is the engine that drives the athletic department

check out how we compare vs our BCS counterparts

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/record...&by=Win+Pct

how many BCS schools have worse winning %'s that us from 1992-current? and who are they?

Duke
Vanderbilt
Baylor
Iowa State
Indiana
Rutgers

2 of these schools are purely basketball schools (Duke, IU), one has no business being in its conference (Baylor), one is Iowa State, one has no excuse just like us (Rutgers), and one is an academic school with NO athletic department or athletic director (Vandy)

there are 65 BCS football schools from the 6 major conferences...we have the #59 best winning % out of 65 BCS schools

one word...unacceptable

Is there any truth to a rumor I've heard that Craig Tiley wanted the AD position?

I'd try to lure him back, and I'd also wait to fire Zook until after a regime change at the top is complete.

Then I'd go hard after Brent Venables, and when Mike Stoops gets canned at UA, hire him as DC.

The jury is still out for me on Schultz, of course.

(a guy can dream, can't he?)

Sorry but Stoops is coming back to Iowa City to replace Norm Parker when he gets fired from UA, but if they play like they did yesterday, he's not going to get fired.

A big Guenther/Zook blunder was not going after Dan McCarney when he got fired from ISU to be your d-coordinator once Okruch was on his way out. Now he's at Florida and he's probably not going anywhere. But that one hire would have instantly made your defense much better. Zook bringing in talent and McCarney coaching and developing them would have probably led to a defense that was consistently in the top 10 nationally. McCarney is a fantastic coach but the idiots at Iowa State think they should have a top 25 team every year and fired him when he couldn't deliver. Now they're a consistent 2 game a year winner.

Everyone is wasting their breath. It won't happen until he wants to step down...and I think that will happen AFTER they decide and follow through with AH or build a new arena. Then I think you'll see him step down on his own terms

Ron Guenther has done an amazing job at the University of Illinois. He has singlehandedly done the fundraising to get the facilities necessary to compete in the Big Ten. He has fought hard to provide pay raises to his coaches to make them competitive with other top programs. His programs are pretty much the cleanest in the nation at a BCS program. ADs around the country have respect for the guy. Anybody that's taking shots at Guenther right now has no idea what they are talking about and no clue what the powers-that-be value in an athletic director. I hope Ron has at least another 5 years in him in this job.

guenther is gone at the end of 2010. if not sooner ...

great in terms of development and capital investment / improvement. very good in terms of financial management. good in terms of directorship of non-revenue sports.

but an abject, abysmal failure in terms of directing the football program.

alas, that's the economic engine that should drive the DIA. and the prime criterion for evaluating his tenure.

Ron will be around as long as he wants the job. My guess is 2013 or 2014 will be his final year, but I could see him staying on beyond that (at least in an advisory role).

nope. the times, they are a-changin'. a wholesale transformation is (or will soon be) underway at the university of illinois at urbana-champaign.

(btw, go back and read my edit to the previous post. do you really disagree with my assessment?)

Yes, MS is looking great for sure. I agree.


And for the two programs that bring in the money, football and basketball, why? I don't recall anyone breaking down the door to get at Zook or Weber.


Since you'll probably say that I have no way of knowing that other programs weren't after our two lame ducks, I'll go ahead and throw out that you have no way of knowing how clean our program is compared to other BCS schools.

Even if everything that you say is true, wins and losses are where it counts and we're failing miserably.

Hey JPM, Zook took a team with very few Big Ten level recruits to a Rose Bowl within a very short period of time. He's done an amazing job for a second-tier Big Ten football program. Anybody thinking somebody with a better resume than Ron Zook wants to coach at Illinois is dreaming.

And how can you criticize the Bruce Weber hire? That was sheer brilliance, especially at the price Ron paid Bruce at the beginning of his tenure. There's very few basketball coaches that most Illini fans would have rather than Bruce.

Rose Bowls and Final Fours while Ron Guenther was at the helm. New, top-notch facilities. Squeaky clean programs. The man is one of the top ADs in the country.

what is our football program's winning percentage during ron guenther's tenure?

I'm thankful for the Rose Bowl ass kicking that we got, I really am. Saying he's done an amazing job at anything, save recruiting, is totally false however.


What a sad statement. Money talks, period. Also, to imply that since we can't bring in someone better that we should just be content on the crap that we have is just crazy talk.


Easily, but this is the FB forum.


He was cheap, yes.


Wrong, wrong wrong. Again, wrong.


Plural on the post season is laughable. Also, stop saying squeaky clean, you're kidding yourself.

And the winning percentage has dropped dramatically with RG's hires. Of the schools above at least Vanderbilt went to a bowl last year and is playing pretty good ball these days (that is competitive), at least by IL standards. They normally don't get blown off the field.

we had a major violation in football in 2005.

we've self-reported copious other "minor" violations during guenther's tenure.

and just because you don't get caught doesn't mean you didn't commit the crime.

cheese might wanna also take a look at the police blotter before going forward with his apologia.

Here's the trouble with Ron Guenther. He's both as good and as bad as people say he is.

On the plus side, leaving aside the competitive product of the revenue sports, he runs an exemplary athletic department. The sports infrastructure on this campus is world class and he hasn't needed to take the DIA into the red to accomplish it. Furthermore, a program that had been in constant trouble with the NCAA for decades has been squeaky clean under his tenure. The academic quality of our athletic program has been very good as well.

In short, he will give an athletic department to his successor that is in an enviable position. People talk about how people might not want the football and basketball jobs here, but there will be a line out the door to get our AD job, we are in great, great shape.

On the minus side, Guenther has always failed to realize that the way that he perceives his job is not by and large the way his customer, the Illinois fan, does. To us, his job is to make the two revenue sports national championship competitive. That's it. The other stuff helps toward that goal, in his mind I think he believes it to be part and parcel with that goal, but facilities and NCAA compliance are not an end in themselves.

Now, I know many will, but I think you can't really complain about the basketball program under Guenther. However, the competitive performance of the football team has just been totally unacceptable. So even though he has been successful in a lot of areas, he is to be judged on wins and losses like everyone else in sports, and his tenure as leader of a football program has been an abject failure.

Ron? Is that you?

Has any BCS or Division I AD lost as many FB games and stayed on the job? [except maybe for schools like Temple]

Sugar Bowl. Rose Bowl. Final Four/National Championship game/most single season wins in NCAA history in basketball. Name me the last Illinois athletic director who accomplished that during his tenure without the NCAA shutting down one of those programs. I'll be right here waiting for the answer.

OSU?

Marcus Mason and a major NCAA violation say hello

79-119-2. .395

We lose 2 games away from home to top 20 football teams, and you people are ready to fire the athletic director. It really must be nice to provide armchair criticism without having a clue into the inner workings of the DIA and what is asked of Ron Guenther.

This is nominally true, but once you look past the surface, it's just plain false. I've dispelled this myth many times, but apparently I have to do it again.

While it's true that the Illinois Athletic Department runs an operating surplus, the only reason they do so is because the university bailed out Guenther when football went bad (and continues to bail him out). Yes kids, long before AIG and Wall Street were running to the government with their hats in their hands, Guenther was begging the university to bail out the athletic department. It started when I was in school (I believe 97 was the first year) and since then the students of the university have been forced to subsidize the AD to the tune of $2.5 million per year, which is a material portion of the AD's revenues.

But you don't have to take my word for it. Just look at the AD's annual report. In it you'll see a revenue line item for a student special assessment.

So in short, yeah, the AD runs a balanced budget in much the same way AIG is cash flow neutral. The only difference is that AIG at least pretends they're going to pay back the money. Guenther never put up any pretenses with respect to his bailout.

I'd also disagree that the sports infrastructure at Illinois is world class - that's certainly not the case with Assembly Hall or Memorial Stadium - but this post is long enough, so I won't go into it. Our infrastructure isn't terrible by any means, but I don't even think it's possible to argue we're at the top of the Big Ten, much less "world class".

While noone will argue that the Sugar Bowl and Rose Bowl weren't nice (despite the fact we got spanked in both games), you'd have to be a lunatic to consider Illinois football under Guenther a success or anything worth crowing about as an accomplishment.

I could care less about the inner workings of the DIA. What *should be* asked of him is putting together a football team that is not terrible. What is our cumulative football record since 2003? The frustration being shown on this forum is not exclusively for these 2 losses this year. It is the way we lost to these teams - in a year everyone had been looking forward to - and the fact that we were "supposed" to have a very good team this year (and look terrible in every single aspect of football).

These two losses, in combination with the last 7 years, show that some of the frustration shown here is entirely reasonable.

To an extent, I will agree that some of this is over the top. I remember our 2006 loss against Indiana at home where everyone seemed to be (prematurely) calling for Zook's head. We'll see how this plays out this year....but right now, it is looking like it will be absolutely awful.

Farva, a nice, reasonable post, thanks for adding some class to this discussion.

What I will disagree with in your argument is that this was supposed to be a very good team this season. Did I miss a consensus of experts ranking the Illini in the preseason top 25? To me, we lost to two teams that we probably should have lost to so far this season. Guess what, we'll possibly lose next weekend to another team that we're supposed to lose to. But there's a lot of season left to go, and there can still be significant success if people don't lose sight of the fact that this year's schedule was front-loaded.

Give me a break. People aren't nearly as mad about the fact we lost as they are about how we lost. Neither game was even remotely close. And while we may not have been a consensus top 25 team (though I don't how that's an excuse for sucking 2 years after the Rose Bowl with more talent), the consensus was that we'd be a bowl team, not a team that would get run off the field in its first 2 D-1A games.

By the way, if Mizzou is a team we "should have lost to", we might as well fold up the tent on the season, because they're not materially better than anyone else we play this season, with the exception of maybe Purdue, Northwestern and Fresno State. Maybe.

You're replying to a shtick people.

No one supports either of the mo-Rons driving our football program in to the ground.

Sorry, Chuckie, but I must disagree. 2001 and 2007 were years where everything went right in a lot of ways. Both years, Illinois could have easily been a .500 team had certain breaks gone the other way.

The 2005 hoops season was definitely a great season, but there was absolutely no follow-up. Why couldn't Guh-unther's hire (Bruce Weber) capitalize on that amazing season and strung together more success? 2007-2008 was an awful year, and 2008-2009 should have been a bad year instead of a "well, we're on the way up" year.

I don't take two good football seasons and a great basketball season as the mark of a great AD over the course of 17 years. The marketing of the program continues to be terrible, there has been a major NCAA violation in football, Illinois can't get on a decent Chicago radio station while freaking NIU can secure a deal with the Score, and the football program has won fewer than 2 of every five games during Guh-unther's tenure.

Since we started this thread with a business reference, I'll continue this motif. We, the fans and alumni of the Fighting Illini, are the stockholders of the program. When stockholders are upset with a company, they sell the company's stock. The NCAA version of this is stop attending games and stop donating to the DIA. Until Guh-unther is no longer AD, I will do both things. I've been a fan of the team for over 25 years, made a road trip to Columbus as a senior during the 0-11 season in 1997, have put untold thousands of miles on my vehicles driving to games over the years, and have tried to stay optimistic about things. I'm through. Until Guh-unther is gone, I will not attend a football game or donate to the DIA. I'm voting with my wallet.

LOL...good luck in hoping you make a difference. For every fan that stays home and pouts, there is another willing to buy the tickets and take in a Saturday at MS. Again...good luck though.

and there we have it.

guenther should be heartily thanked for his development initiatives, capital investment / improvement programs, and fiscal responsibility.

and promptly shown the door. .395 is abject failure.

Really? Do you happen to know what our attendence was the last 9 years? There has been a lot of capacity for many games.

**fixed

You have a very, very short memory. We were just outside the top 25 in voting at the outset of this season. The consensus was that by beating MO we would be in the top 25. So, the so called experts, not to mention the general tone of positive anticipation, had Illinois as an up and coming team in 2009. Furthermore, athe B10network broadcasters had us as a dark horse for the B10 title. From all of this, being totally inept against a middle of the road MO team and a good Ohio State team is not what one would expect from this team--9 points in two games! The frustration by Illini hard core fans is not just this season (so far), but last season, and the general downtrodden reputation of Illinois FB. Sure, we all were happy with the Sugar Bowl and Rose Bowl seasons, but playing less than .400 ball under the current AD is really not an exemplary standard to hold up as how to run an athletic department. Without the "required" student fees the AD would not be able to balance the budget based on FB revenue in the large majority of down years.

And that IU game is yet another example of a FB game that the coaching staff lost in an abject manner. IL snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Hey, I know it won't make a difference, because we all know that big money is the only thing that makes the world go round these days. I just wish the big donors and long-time ticket holders were as fed up as I am. I consider myself as loyal and passionate of an Illini fan as anyone, so I can't fathom how any other Illini fans would want to keep putting up with this.

Well you must know that we only have 6 home games right? Maybe that's how Ron is trying to make the tickets harder to come by.

I bet we have 22,000 people show up for Fresno State. So typical for football under Guenther.

well, then, Mrs. Guenther, what you see is what you get.

After watching the inept Bears offense (Bears defense and SeaHawk Turnovers won the game today) guided by one of our former favorite Ron's, I will say that whomever is eventually hired to replace the current AD and Football HC, their name had better not be Ron. I'm talking not the first, middle, or last name of the guy that gets either job. This also includes the 14 standard name variations of the name Ron: Ranald, Renaldo, Ronal, Ronaldo, Rondale, Roneld, Ronell, Ronello, Ronn, Ronnie, Ronny, Ronald, Ran, and Ronnie.

If any future University of Illinois AD, Basketball or Football Head Coach, and assistants contains any of the above variations of the name Ron in any portion of their full name, I am burning all my orange and blue and will make an immediate donation to the athletic fund to any or all of the below schools:

iowa
scum
tosu
tennesee

All Fighting Illini failures in recent history are related to the name Ron. You cannot argue with Karma.

That is all........

You can run a clean program and win. Illinois is 40 games under .500 with Guenther as AD.

When you say "I hope Ron has at least another 5 years in him in this job.", you are basically saying 4-8 or 5-7 is good enough.

I disagree. Illinois can and should do better.

Please show me any evidence that 4-8 is on the horizon. 5-7 is possible this year, only because the Illini have one of the most difficult out-of-conference schedules in the country.

Personally, I don't see more than 2 probable losses the rest of the way. Every other game is a tossup at worst.

Chuckie, I think there are drugs in your cheese......

Please quote the amount of money you are willing to wager on these statements.

In advance, I accept a bet for whatever amount you select.

I await your response.

The worlds greatest AD, but leads a 2nd tier football program, can't attract head coaches, and creates insanely difficult schedules.

Cognitive dissonance anyone?

LOL

By the way, I think calling Illinois football under Guenther second tier is being really, really generous. Surely there's some tier of teams between USC/Florida/tOSU/etc and 3 winning seasons in 15 years.