Loren Tate chat: 11:30 a.m. Monday

Monday, September 6, 2010 - 11:30am

Chit-chat with legendary News-Gazette columnist and WDWS personality Loren Tate

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:28 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Good morning ... let's get going. Loren

Bill from San Jose, CA — 11:28 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Who decides what the uniforms look like? I can't stand the white pants. Bring back the ones from the Mike White era, please.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:30 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Bill, we assume the decision is a combination of coaches and players, with limitations based on who is home and who is away. Illinois was the road team Saturday. Sorry, that's not something I pay much attention to. Others aspects of the team are of greater concern. Loren

Tim from Chicago, IL — 11:30 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Hey Loren, How many times a week do you and the Ron's (Zook & Guenther) go golfing? You guys must be close because you refuse to do any honest journalism and look at the facts before you write puff piece on them. Guenther refuses to correct his coaching hire mistakes (and contracts) and Zook is 21-40 as the head coach of Illinois. What other school in the country would keep Zook another two years as almost certainly Guenther will.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:33 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Tim, to the best of my knowledge, Zook doesn't play golf.
Why, Tim, do you bother asking questions of someone that you obviously dislike? If it was me, I wouldn't bother. On the Guenther subject, I have a belief, which happens to coincide with past presidents like Ikenberry, and past chancellors, and members of the Board of Trustees, that Guenther is the man they want in place. If that doesn't please you, look elsewhere, please. I can handle your insults but I just don't need them. Thanks, Loren

Tim from Champaign, IL — 11:33 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Cincinnati, Rutgers, West Virginia, Connecticut, Boise St. and Northwestern can develop winning football programs but Illinois can't? Loren stop making excuses for this program and start writing the facts, Illinois is one of the biggest underachievers in all of college football. When you compare Guenther to every other Big Ten AD he is near the bottom but he is paid the most.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:36 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Tim, I don't recall making excuses. Yes, Illinois is an underachiever. That is obvious to everyone. What is past doesn't concern me near as much as what lies in the immediate and long-distance future.
Guenther is among the highest paid ADs because of his value, in the eyes of his superiors, to the overall athletic program. And he has provided football with facilities and other assets to be successful. You may deem the football failures as his fault. I don't. Loren

Dave from Urbana, IL — 11:36 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

How far have the expectations of the football team fallen when people are happy to just not get blown out by an unranked rival on a neutral field?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:40 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Dave, expectations always follow what has happened in the recent past, with the addition of recruiting. Right now, it doesn't look good in any aspect. The UI can't expect fans to get excited after what we've seen. Games are supposed to be fun, and they cease to be fun when the team loses so frequently (like all six in St. Louis). I don't have a solution for the problem. Illinois is down and may or may not get up.
Let me add one thing. If some fans want to take an ever-optimistic approach, regardless of the obvious problems, that is OK with me. For those of us in the media, we have to report what we see and, to some extent, what we anticipate. Loren

Doug in Penn State Country from Hershey, PA — 11:40 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

It seems to me that if the Illini consistently play like they did in the first half this team could have a decent year and be bowl-bound...however on the flip side if the team comes out flat again like the second half of the Mizzou game it could be a long year, especially against SIU. I have heard Scheelhaase has already been watching tape and working on his offense; has his leadership trickled down to the other players? Also, after the blowout last year the team seemed derailed and hopeless. What is the attitude amongst the players right now? Are they going to be hyped up for SIU? I still believe this team could make some noise in the Big Ten...especially with all of September to work on the offense and hopefully pick up some momentum with 2 good wins. Do they believe in themselves?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:45 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Doug, with regard to Scheelhaase, there are always doubts about a first-time quarterback. Most recruited quarterbacks fail. That's a fact. Can he succeed? Sure. He has excellent running instincts. Is he a good enough passer to be better than Juice? That remains to be seen. If he goes 9 for 23 with three interceptions every game, Illinois is doomed. So he has to get better, and he very well might. It is hard to be an effective leader unless you are productive.
I don't think the Illini came out flat in the second half. I just think the obvious superiority of Mizzou's aerial game buried. Teams will crowd the line to force Illinois to pass, and if Illinois can't pass, well ...
As to whether the team "believes," I have no idea. The players always talk a good game. Zook talks a good game. To me, that means nothing. I'll wait and see how they play. Loren

GHD from Pullman, WA — 11:46 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Good Morning Tate Sir!
Your assailing the Illini football and basketball teams in your Sunday column is pretty noxious stuff. Illini football team gets vastly improved nods after the close game with Mizzou from other sports writers and you have nothing positive to say? Then you go on to assail THIS year's basketball team who are highly regarded again by several top sports writers and analysts and best you can come up with is use last year's results. Pretty lame and unbecoming someone covering Illinois sports. I think your "Depends" need changing and time to be commited to a nursing home. Have lost ALL respect for you.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:49 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

GHD, No. 1, I didn't assail the basketball team. I just pointed out that Illinois won't be ranked in the Top Two in the conference, and faced a five- to six-way battle for the Big Ten championship. Is such an obviously realistic approach "assailing" them? Come on, grow up. Face reality.
And if a 20-0 second half in which Illinois made four first downs and was thoroughly dominated is reason to be optimistic, fine. Be optimistic. Don't let me dissuade you.
Yes, I cover Illinois sports, but I try to use common sense. The nursing home will come soon enough without you rushing it. Wow. Who are you people?
Loren

Illinini cubbie blues from Here we go again, Hoodwinked agai — 11:49 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Loren: Your analysis of football is great. Mizz. made adjustments at half time. Do you think we will start using rotating QB'S? Great show.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:53 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Illini cubbie blues, sure, Mizzou made adjustments, NORMAL ADJUSTMENTS that everyone will make. Opponents are going to stack the line to limit runs by Leshoure and Scheelhaase, with the intention of forcing Scheelhaase to win the game with his arm. The only surprise I saw what that Mizzou didn't do that sooner. Or maybe they tried and hadn't found a way to make it work earlier. But, clearly, Illinois must develop its passing game in order to be successful against comparable teams. Question is, can the Illini do it?
No, there doesn't seem to be anything like alternating quarterback on the horizon. Loren

Bruce P from Covington, Indiana — 11:53 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Almost two minutes left in the game......Illini down 7.....Mizzu with the ball.........clock runs down to about 1:17 before we called time-out.
What was wrong with the 1st 40 or so seconds? Either use it......or not......but why let all that time run off the clock?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:55 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Bruce, you may have a point. I go along with the idea that the timeouts should be called as early as possible in the final minutes. Like you, I think you save more time that way. Loren

John Vivian from Washington, D.C. — 11:55 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Loren: I am just flabbergasted that Illinois is wasting its time playing the likes of SIU and NIU.

I just don't understand Ron Guenther's philosophy. If you want to be the best, you need to play the best.

Why not try to schedule the likes of Illinois, Oklahoma, Florida, etc.?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 11:57 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

John, you fall in what is developing as a minority in your complaints against playing SIU and NIU. Most people seem to believe Illinois should play four games against Little Sisters of the Poor. Were you just joking?
In their present condition, it doesn't appear Illinois can compete against Top 20 teams. Loren

Alfred from Austin , Texas — 11:57 AM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Loren -

Do you think the players really listened to Zook's pep talk this past weekend after the Mizzou loss? Or would they rather listen to Petrino and Koenning for inspiration?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:00 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Alfred, In talking to Koenning as we walked away from Saturday's post-game press conference, he said that he was very impressed by the job Zook did in "talking up" and inspiring the team, and in keeping them energized during the game. Koenning made a special point of emphasizing that me. I think Koenning said that because he was impressed and believed it. As for who the players are most inspired by, I have no idea. Loren

Bill from Urbana, IL — 12:00 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

I have read some articles recently stating that the cost of the Assembly Hall renovation may cost up to $200 million. I have also read that Nebraska is building a brand new 16,000 seat basketball arena at an estimated cost of $168 million. How does renovating a 40 year old building at such a high cost make financial sense?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:03 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Bill, the first problem with the Assembly Hall is that you can't tear it down.
With that as a given, you can't build another one close to it because it wouldn't make sense. So the UI is caught in a bind. The building needs to be brought up to date. We'll see whether Guenther can raise the money. It seems impossible from where I sit, but he has already built some buildings that I didn't think he could. Loren

David from Savoy, IL — 12:03 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

In the 2nd half the Missouri D-line seemed to almost know if we were running or passing. Could any of this be from our O-line tipping the play? Somewhat like a baseball pitcher tipping his pitches and the hitter knowing what's coming.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:05 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

David, good question but I don't know the answer. If the O-line was tipping plays, the coaches should be able to find it out in the tape review.
On the other side, we knew Gabbert was going to pass (48 times) and we couldn't stop it. He could have announced the plays in advance, and it wouldn't have made a difference. Missouri could pass, Illinois couldn't, and therein likes the problem. Loren

RonG from Dresden, IL — 12:05 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Illinois basketball should stop trying to win the Big Ten and go deep in NCAA tourney for Lorne has spoken and they must be losers again.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:10 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

RonG, what kind of stuff are they passing out in Dresden. I think Illinois will have a very good basketball team. I watched them practice last week and I'm impressed. Tisdale is improved, McCamey looks sharp, Richmond is versatile and very talented, Paul could be better. That doesn't change the fact that Michigan State and Purdue will be ranked in the nation's Top 5, and at least three other Big Ten teams are comparable to Illinois. Does it turn me into a ogre to remind people of that. Do you want me to live in some kind of dream world? Come on, be realistic. Nowhere did I say that Illinois can't be successful. They could even win it. But it's a five- or six-team race with MSU and Purdue clearly holding the advantage.
Oh my goodness, I did it again. I didn't pick Illinois to win all their games. What I need is someone to send me pom-pon so I can be a better cheerleader. Loren

Sam from Chambana, IL — 12:10 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Why on Earth did Theresa Grentz receive a contract extension and raise?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:11 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Sam, I think Guenther made a mistake in that regard, and I can't explain it other than to say he is sometimes too loyal, but not always. Loren

jkbigstuff from Sarasota, FL — 12:11 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Tough crowd this morning Loren. Seems like either you write exactly how they feel | think or you are the bad guy. It reads like excess judgement to me.

I continue to believe your posts are accurate, using interesting and clever transitions between topics (like a segway from FB to BB) and give reason to consider another point of view. Well done!

Do you think the coaches will play one of our 'passing-first' QB's in 2010 instead of 'running-first' Nathan, and what type of events to do think may need to occur before they choose to make such a change?

I think the Illini played a much better game last Saturday than we saw all of last season. Go Illini!

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:18 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

jkbigstuff, let me explain something. I don't entirely control what I write. I try to follow Jim Rossow's lead. If I had my way, I would write entirely about football for Sunday's paper. But Jim wants me to skip around, do the Old-Young thing ... and I will tell you that (1) he is a lot smarter than I am, (2) he knows better what the newspaper needs and (3) he wants me to be more personal and write things for Sunday during the week on a variety of subjects. I am trying to follow his directions. I didn't write the headline and I didn't mean to favor basketball. I just thought it was interesting that a writer (Gottlieb) would pick Illinois to win the Big Ten when most everyone is picking Purdue or MSU.
Of the last 100 suggestions Rossow has given me, 99 of them have been right on. I will continue to follow his lead and, if he is satisfied, I don't care what anyone else thinks (except John Foreman).
As for quarterback, unless Scheelhaase fails, he'll be the quarterback. What ultimately transpires will be obvious to everyone as we go forward.
Loren

Chris from Findlay, IL — 12:18 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

How can the football team not have enough secondary help? Even with injuries you would think we would have some young corners/safety's to step in and do the job without having to convert RB's and WR's to that spot. Are we just thin in that area because of recruiting?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:23 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Chris, I wrote about this last week. The Illini lost three key DBs through the completion of their elibigility, lost Flowers and 11-game starter Edwards for other reasons, lost two more by injury, another by disqualification from school, and the judgment was made by the coaches that Green and Hull, in particular, would be better than the others who were already back there. Evidently Hull did pretty well, and so did Green, although 34-for-48 passing would leave some doubt. But consider, a lot of teams have trouble defending accurate passers. Michigan's Robinson went 19 for 22 against U-Conn, Northwestern's QB had a similar percentage, and Penn State's new QB went 20 for 29. It will forever be impossible to stop the perfectly executed pass. Let me repeat. It will forever be impossible to stop the perfectly executed pass. Loren

ron miles from champaign, il — 12:23 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

More of a comment: Some poor recruiting of DB's when you lose starters and have to convert other position players rather than having even the first level depth to reload with real DB's. Thoughts?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:25 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Ron, as I just said, the coaches always had it in mind that Green was recruited by Ohio State and others as a DB, but they had to wait until he thought it was a good idea to switch. Hull had similar talents and inclinations, and now that move has been made. But you are correct, the defensive backfield was a weakness before these injuries happened. It was the area that Koenning was most worried about, and he was correct in his analysis.
Loren

Bryce from Effingham, IL — 12:25 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Loren,
Which band sounded better Saturday? Illinois or Mizzou?

Love the chats!

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:26 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Bryce, I was so disappointed that there was no flyover that I didn't notice the bands. I was trying to work at halftime and the computer kept balking. Maybe there was a pigeon flyover and I missed it. I'll be more alert next time. Loren

Joe from Chicago, IL — 12:26 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Loren, You are awesome. Just thought i'd counter the insults. Keep up the good work, sir.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:28 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Joe, darn, I've been on here an hour, and I actually got a compliment. Please, no more. I'm not good as accepting them. I like the criticisms more. Pile it on. I am loathsome and need to retire or, better yet, burned at the stake. Loren

Jeff from Champaign, Illinois — 12:28 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Hey, Loren. I don't understand these guys who continue to throw insults your way. One guy says that you're too hard on the team and coaches, another says you're too easy. Man, these people need to get a life! So what if we lose? So what if we win? This isn't Alabama or any other school where winning comes at all costs. Universities are about higher learning; read, education. To heck with these jerks. They obviously are miserable in other aspects of their lives and sports is an prjection for that. I doubt they are smart enough to figure that out though...
Keep up the great work. You are a fantastic writer and your insight is always welcome to most of us balanced individuals.
Any thoughts on Abrams as the future PG? I've seen him once and wasn't particularly impressed. Thinking of when DMac and Richmond are both gone and really, who will be the PG next year as no one on the roster is a 'natural' PG after they're gone.

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:31 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Jeff, to be honest, I prefer the miserable jerks. Maybe they need someone to take out their frustrations on, and I'm happy to be that person.
Abrams is, as Paul Klee has pointed out, a work in progress as a point guard. I'm not sure he, as a freshman, can beat out Bertrand, but then we just have to wait and see what kind of a backup point guard Bertrand is this season. You are correct that Illinois has no natural point guard on the squad next season, but Abrams has a year to improve and is a very mature, aggressive athlete. He just needs to improve his ballhandling. Loren

Jim D from Buffalo Grove, IL — 12:31 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Loren, after watching the Mizzou game, who do you feel needs to step up their play in order for the Illini football team to be bowl eligible this year?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:35 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Jim, well, to be honest, just about everyone. Certainly Scheelhaase and the secondary. But the keys, as a see them, are (1) prevailing in the next two games against SIU and NIU, (2) hanging in against Ohio State and Penn State and (3) maintaining enthusiasm through likely losses to meet the remainder of the schedule with a positive approach. Hopefully, Hawthorne and Becker will be back by then, and Illinois won't have lost anyone else. I'm just stupid enough to think Illinois can compete favorably in the last seven games ... not win them all, understand, but win enough to put a positive spin on next season when the first eight games are either home or in Indiana, and all are "do-able." Loren

John from Tucson, AZ — 12:35 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

I noticed that until Illinois fell behind, on only one occasion did they have more than 1 receiver 10 yards down the field. On the first interception, it was the free safety whom Scheelhaase obviously did not see who made the interception, but that free safety did not have to choose between receivers. Also, run to pass on first down must have been about 7 to 1. Petrino called a very conservative game, probably to protect the quarterback, but it was a play-not-to-lose rather than a play-to-win ... or so it appeared from the 30 yard line. Comment?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:37 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

John, I'm running out of time. Already over. I agree that Petrino appeared pretty conservative because he had no deep threat, but that doesn't explain why he didn't throw to the tight end or running back (except for the last toe-on-the-line catch by Leshoure. Loren

DA Raney from Decatur, IL — 12:37 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Do we know who is the back up QB yet?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:39 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

DA, I think it might be McGee for a short stint. If longer, there are rumors it might to Osei. Petrino definitely wants to stick with Scheelhaase. Loren

John Domagala from Manatee, FL — 12:39 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Loren,
Do you ever feel like an athlete that waited too long to retire. I see your objectivity fading (with regards to the university personnel, NOT Sundays team analysis) At the same time fan base is on you more than ever. Do you ever wish you had gone out while you were on top and still admired?

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:45 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

John, that's funny, I don't feel any different than I did 20 or 40 years ago.
You probably think I've changed because all this is coming out on the internet, but really I haven't. I've always been a bad guy. Ask Stoner. Ask Moeller.
I don't think the fan base is on me more than normal. That's always been the case when Illinois loses and, for the most part, Illinois has tended to lose in football.
If I was admired, I would be doing something terribly wrong. I don't want to be admired. As for retirement, I'm 78 and who knows? I may be here another year, and I may be here another 10 years. I've known writers who have gone to their 90s. My problem is, I love doing it. Here I am, responding to whoever for an hour and half, and doing it for nothing. You see, I'd rather do it for nothing than do nothing. I apologize for not having a brain hemorrhage. Maybe I will. Loren

Loren Tate (moderator) — 12:47 PM on Mon, 09/06/2010

Gotta go. Gotta find food on a holiday before starting my column. It looks like crackers and cheese from here.
Thanks for brightening my holiday. Criticism, the more rank the better, cheers me up. Loren